this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024

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131

IAEA chief says German return to nuclear power is 'logical' (www.dw.com)

submitted 1 day ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

76 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Summary

Rafael Grossi, head of the IAEA, called Germany's decision to fully phase out nuclear power "illogical," noting it is the only country to have done so.

Despite the completed phase-out in 2023, there is renewed debate in Germany about reviving nuclear energy due to its low greenhouse gas emissions.

Speaking at COP29, Grossi described reconsidering nuclear as a "rational" choice, especially given global interest in nuclear for emissions reduction.

Germany’s phase-out, driven by environmental concerns and past nuclear disasters, has been criticized for increasing reliance on Russian gas and missing carbon reduction opportunities.

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[–] cows_are_underrated@feddit.org 6 points 1 hour ago (2 children)

This article doesn't mention the most important part of all. Nuclear power only made up about 2% of the German energy mix. The power production lost by the loss of nuclear power plants was entirely compensated by renewable power and we also have the smallest coal consumption in about 60 years, so the shutdown had no effect on the German power grid.

The shutdown of our nuclear power plants was also planned since 2011 after the failure of Fukushima. Our government extended the running time by 1 year but it devinetively didnt had the power to just revert the shutdown.

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 1 points 18 minutes ago

Note that the 2011 plan was the reversal of the 2009 extension plan, that was a reactionary reversal of the 2002 plan to phase out nuclear power until 2022. So the issue was the reactionary "lets make more nuclear! Oh shit, a nuclear plant blew up, lets track back on our backtrack" move by the CDU/FDP coalition of the time. Incidently the parties that also now are also crying to want back nuclear.

[–] remon@ani.social -1 points 28 minutes ago (1 children)

Nuclear power only made up about 2% of the German energy mix

Like in 2023 right before the phaseout? What are you talking about?

It used to be 22% of the energy mix.

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 0 points 13 minutes ago (1 children)

Yeah, 20 years ago. If you build more renewables the share of all other power sources goes down.

If you look at the total values in your source, you'll see nuclear to decline since 2006. And from 2021-2023 then the full phase out happened. But the only plants that hypothetically could have ran a bit longer were only left to produce 2%.

To revert now, Germany first would need to invest billions to modernize the plants, which would take years to scale back into it. Also it would likely need to buy their fuel rods from Russia, defeating the whole purpose of sanctioning Russian Oil and Gas.

[–] remon@ani.social 1 points 4 minutes ago

Yeah, 20 years ago. If you build more renewables the share of all other power sources goes down.

Exactly, who cares what it was last year when the phase out was almost done? Claiming that all nuclear was "replaced" by renewables is just a Milchmädchenrechnung to make you feel better. It could have replaced lignite instead.

Anyway, pointless to discuss this people from the feddit.org filter bubble. Let the ballots talk in February.

[–] Zacpod@lemmy.world 6 points 12 hours ago (3 children)

Never understood what kind of an idiot you have to be to choose coal over nuclear. Absolutely bonkers.

[–] Don_alForno@feddit.org 8 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

We didn't. We chose renewables over nuclear.

[–] Iceblade02@lemmy.world 1 points 34 minutes ago (1 children)

There is a larger usage of fossil fuels than there otherwise would have been. A certain portion of new renewables replaced nuclear power instead of fossil fuelled plants.

So yes, Germany did prioritize removing safe, clean energy over removing dirty, dangerous energy.

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 1 points 9 minutes ago

Safe like Three Missile Islands, Chernobyl and Fukushima.

Clean like Murmansk.

Fun fact, just last week in a supposedly safe storage site in Germany contaminated water was found. Nobody knows where it comes from and where it goes.

https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/niedersachsen/braunschweig_harz_goettingen/Atommuelllager-Asse-Bergleute-stossen-auf-radioaktives-Salzwasser,asse1684.html

[+] Valmond@lemmy.world -8 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

You tried, but it didn't work out as expected.

Also, on a side note, with nuclear you could export energy to other countries so that they don't need to rely on coal gas & oil so much.

[–] Don_alForno@feddit.org 8 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

We tried and it did and does work. Renewables are going up, fossils are going down.. We are burning less coal than ever. Any claims to the point of "replaced nuclear with coal" are disinformation and lies.

with nuclear you could export energy to other countries

We are exporting energy to other countries.

Nuclear is the most expensive form of power,. it's unsafe and inflexible. It doesn't make sense, it never did, and all those other kids jumping off the bridge don't change that.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world -1 points 1 hour ago

You could have exported more. It could have been a smother transition.

You are also trying to put words in my mouth, I did not say coal replaced nuclear.

Your fearmongering concerning nuclear makes me think that you are with the bridge jumping kids.

[–] Landslide7648@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

It actually worked better than expected. It’s simply a long process.

Snd until we have a good, permanent solution where to store nuclear waste that won’t be an issue for hundreds of future generations, it’s simply irresponsible to air for nuclear instead of renewables

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago

That's cool!

Yes restarting nuclear today seems stupid especially if it's only for german consumption. Best case scenario is we plaster solar panels all over the world IMO but the production capacity isn't there before another ten years or so, but that beats new nuclear too.

Shutting down nuclear today is a more complicated matter IMO.

[–] Mrs_deWinter@feddit.org 20 points 6 hours ago

Germany wanted to replace nuclear with renewables. This "replace with coal" bs is straight up misinformation.

[–] ms_lane@lemmy.world 0 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Such an attitude afflicts Australia too. We could have close to unlimited free energy, but instead choose to build more Coal since 'Nuclear Bad' and 'Nuclear too much money' (despite the same people decrying the idea of 'too much money' being applied to anything else)

[–] assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world 5 points 7 hours ago

Hmmmm, I don’t think nuclear makes much sense in Australia when we have an abundance of renewable resources available to us. Nuclear energy has never been known to be cheap and rapidly deployable. If we were going to go down the road of nuclear power we will have to start from the ground up given our utter lack of nuclear energy industry. This would take so much time and money. Why do that when we have sun baked deserts, are girt by sea and have every key mineral under the sun.

[–] Fisch@discuss.tchncs.de 38 points 23 hours ago (14 children)

Basically, when the right-wing CDU started the phase-out it was a good thing, when the Greens phased out the last 3, it became a bad thing.

That's literally all this discussion is about. Anyone who's actually taken a look at the data knows that phasing it out was the right move and that there's no point in bringing it back. There's a reason the share of nuclear keeps going down in the EU. Germany is also not the only country that doesn't use nuclear anymore.

Here are the sources for anyone interested:

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[–] ValiantDust@feddit.org 37 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (22 children)

I deeply wish that people would understand that this horse is deader than dead. There is no Frankensteinian experiment and no virus that will bring it back to even a zombie-like half-life. So would you, please, please, just stop beating the poor thing.

It doesn't matter anymore how it died, it's really time to get a new horse.

Edit: Instead of just down voting, could you explain to me:

How should we get nuclear plants running in any time frame relevant to our current problems?
Who is going to pay the billions of Euros to build new nuclear power plants? The energy companies are not interested.
Where we should keep the waste, since we have not yet found a place for the decades' worth of nuclear waste we already have.
How this is making us independent of Russia, our former main source of Uranium

I just fail to see any way how this could right now solve our problem.

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