this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
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Linux

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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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We've all heard it before: People claiming Linux isn't a viable alternative cause you can't run it without using the command line.

I decided to test that. Now there are several distros aimed at new users that have preinstalled GUI tools so you don't have to touch the Terminal. But I wanted to see if that's also possible on a distro not specifically aimed at fresh converts. The oldest distro with a large userbase, which a lot of people consider to be a "standard" Linux, is Debian, so default Debian with Gnome is what I'll use.

I consider "running an OS" to at least include booting it with full disk encryption, starting applications, connecting to a network, browsing the web, file management, installing updates and new software (both from the repos and third party sources), installing necessary drivers, setting up printing and scanning, and adjusting the looks and behaviour of the user interface.
So generally anything you'd be able to do on Windows without opening Powershell, CMD, Regedit or a text editor.

I guess I'm telling you nothing new when I say that you can install, boot, launch apps and browse the web on Debian without the command line.
It comes with a pre-installed software center, printer and scanner setup works out of the box from Gnome's settings.

Here's where it gets a little trickier: Scrolling on Firefox is rough, cause the preinstalled old version doesn't have Wayland support enabled. So you either have to enable Wayland support or install the Flatpak version of Firefox.
To enable Wayland, you have to write MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1 into /etc/environment. But the file manager doesn't let you edit system files without starting it as root from the command line. To add an "edit as admin" entry to the context menu in Nautilus, you need the nautilus-admin package which isn't available in the software center. It can be installed with Synaptic, a pre-installed GUI frontend for apt. But you still need to edit a system text file, which goes against the spirit of this challenge.
The other option requires enabling Flatpak for the Software Center. You can do that by installing gnome-software-plugin-flatpak using synaptic, then heading over to https://flathub.org/setup/Debian to download the flathub repo file which can be installed with a double-click and a reboot.
Note: Beginner-friendly distros ship with a newer Firefox version and Flatpak support out of the box.

To install any compatible binary on your system (like the Universal Android Debloater, for example), just copy it to any place you like. Install the menu editor alacarte and use it to add a menu entry for the file. Now you can launch it from within Gnome by clicking on its icon or using the global search.

Another issue is that during the boot process, you're already presented with the command line running boot messages by you, and the password prompt for the disk decryption is also on the command line. Also, the 5 second Grub countdown is kind of annoying. To make this prettier, we need to install grub-customizer, launch it, set the grub countdown to 0 and add the word splash at the end of your kernel parameters in the settings. This activates the "boot-prettifier" plymouth which is pre-installed but not activated by default. Again, pushing the boundaries of this challenge.
Note: Beginner-friendly distros come with pretty plymouth boot enabled by default.

To enable the non-free nvidia Driver, you need to enable non-free software during the GUI installation or in the Software Center settings, then install nvidia-driver from Synaptic, and reboot.
Note: Beginner-friendly distros come with a one-click NVidia driver install

To install Steam from the Debian repos, you'd need to enable Multi-Arch first, which isn't possible without the command line. Using the Flatpak version is your other option.
Note: Some beginner-friendly distros handle this for you as soon as you install a package that depends on multi-arch

tl/dr: It's possible to run and administer Debian for standard tasks without touching the command line. It's just generally faster to use the terminal if you know what you're doing.
Distros like Ubuntu, Mint, Zorin or Pop!_OS (possibly also Manjaro which I have no experience with) remove the remaining roadblocks. The only time you'll always need the command line is to fix issues you have with help from other users, because it's much, much easier to just post the right terminal commands online than to guide you through whichever GUI you might be using.

Anyone who's ever followed a Windows troubleshooting guide knows what I'm talking about.

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[–] retrieval4558@mander.xyz 5 points 4 months ago

Yeah my daily driver for awhile has been Debian stable. All the normal day to day tasks can very easily be accomplished with only gui tools. My CLI stuff is more or less limited to ssh access to other machines and some light docker tinkering.

[–] MockingMoniker@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

Does Android count?

[–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 5 points 4 months ago

OpenSUSE has YAST2-GUI GTK. Full GUI for everything, users, hardware review, even fiddling with kernel, services, or editting text config files via admin gui.

[–] twinnie@feddit.uk 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I wish I could just go 10 minutes without using terminal.

I always think Linux caters to people with incredibly basic requirements such as a bit of web browsing, emails, and editing a document. And it obviously caters to total nerds like the kind of people who subscribe to the Linux section of Lemmy.

However, it really doesn’t cater well to the inbetweeners who want stuff a bit more advanced than what an iPad can do, it kind of just lumps them with a huge learning curve and says “get on with it”.

[–] tabular@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I didn't use early generation smart phones and was completely bewildered when I discovered apps often used swiping left/right to interact. No app I had used before ever indicated that was an option. I suggested adding indicators to an app to teach user but that was rejected as "everyone knows that".. It's easy when you know how.

As a nerd who subscribes to the Linux section of Lemmy; well done for everyone trying to learn something new. The learning never stops :')

[–] StrawberryPigtails@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 4 months ago

I didn't use early generation smart phones and was completely bewildered when I discovered apps often used swiping left/right to interact. No app I had used before ever indicated that was an option. I suggested we should add indicators to our app to teach people but that was rejected because "everyone knows that". It's easy when you know how.

Oh it’s even worse when you did have experience with early smartphones. I’ve used Windows CE phones, Blackberrys, PalmOS phones, early Androids, and since 2015, iOS. None of them did things the same way, but all navigated using clickable objects on the screen. I was shocked when I had accidentally stumbled upon gestures. In 2017.

I’m still discovering new gestures, usually by accident. It’s becoming more intuitive, but only because I now know that it might be an option.

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[–] BitSound@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

Thanks for the list. It'd be interesting to see something like the Are We X Yet sites for Mozilla/Rust projects that tracks this sort of thing

[–] techcelt@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Yes, entirely possible. I've been using Linux off and on since 2006 and full time as my daily driver since 2018ish. I've used Ubuntu, Fedora, Open Suse, Endeavour OS, Manjaro and various combos of those in that time. I barely use CLI, bar distro updates and a few basics. The fact that you need to use the CLI is a complete myth. I see a lot of responses stating "yeah, but why would you want to?" . That, frankly, is gatekeeping. I fully respect those who choose to use the CLI as a powerful tool, I understand their position. But if someone chooses not to, because they aren't as used to it or just prefer to use a mouse to click around then yes it is possible, and they should be encouraged to run a Linux distro if they want to.

If I had read many of the responses below, back in 2006, I may not have tried Ubuntu when I did and may not be still using Linux to this day.

[–] Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Its not possible to use windows to its fullest without the command line. You can muddle along and miss out without it but you will always hit a point where the cli is the best way forward.

[–] ian@feddit.uk 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Depends what you are doing on Windows. I've never needed the command line.

[–] Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 4 points 4 months ago

That is very true. Good point.

[–] cor@slrpnk.net 4 points 4 months ago

my first computer only had a command line

[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 4 points 4 months ago

It reaaaally depends. Say the person only needs a browser, once they or someone installs the OS, they can just go to firefox and get started doing whatever they do. If they want to play some games then they might need to learn how to get steam, wine, lutris and stuff installed. However, some distros like Bazzite has that installed. I guess it all depends what they want to do with the computer and how much they want to play around with it.

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 4 points 4 months ago

Debian's great but not the best choice here.

[–] boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net 4 points 4 months ago

There are tons of things a distro needs to preconfigure for you to work like that.

It can absolutely work. Imagine:

  • atomic distro based on uBlue using KDE Plasma
  • a working ISO (lol)
  • it updates automatically when battery is okay and the network is not metered
  • the image uses :latest versions so version upgrades are automatic
  • flathub is preinstalled
  • install apps
  • manage flatpak permissions through KDE Settings
  • maybe use btrfs-assistant for some fancy backup and management stuff (but that is not preinstalled)

But for some stuff CLI is needed.

[–] NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

with certain distros the answer is a resounding "yes" with some others it's a "technically, yes" and with even others it's "good luck!"

UAC-style sudo prompts are are one of the most common issues i can think of. It's very poorly implemented in the distro i use.

[–] 299792458ms@lemmy.zip 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Firefox and forks have Wayland support (MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1) by default since version 121 or so.

[–] KISSmyOSFeddit@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Yes but Debian still ships a version that doesn't.

[–] datelmd5sum@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

You can definitely hammer a screw, but why would you?

[–] UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

People try their hardest to make computers your friends. Don't be afraid to talk to them 😊

[–] urska@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 months ago

Yes. Pretty much on all distros. Also its a very different feeling than when you do it on Windows. On linux its to do a specif desired task and it doesnt have that strange feeling of just running an obscure that you dont understand command like on Windows.

Keep it to Fedora, Opensuse, Ubuntu/Debian or Endevour. The first two are the bests.

[–] pr06lefs@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago

You can't run the linux I use (nixos) without the command line.

The mobile linuxes are way more GUI oriented. Android is first on that list. But also the various other linuxes that target phones, with UIs like phosh. On those I'd say you can mostly never touch a terminal.

But I don't think you'll ever be able to do ALL the things without touching the command line though. There's a lot of software that's intended to run in a no-GUI situation, like a headless server or embedded. Sometimes a GUI interface will be provided, but I doubt that kind of thing will ever be GUI-first.

[–] dkc@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I don’t think you really do anymore. I’d consider myself an experienced Linux user. I’ve been using it as a my desktop OS for over 20 years. I’ve also used Linux heavily through my career and am completely comfortable with the command line.

With recent installs of Fedora the only thing I use the command line for is the initial setup of the multimedia codecs. After that I haven’t been required to touch it.

I used to consider a terminal required to keep your desktop Linux system running. Now I look at is as an optional install for programmers.

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

The only way I know of to fix the bios time issue when dual booting with windows is using the cmdline on Linux, or regedit on windows.

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