this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2024
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How dare the Jewish people try to build a safe home for themselves after centuries of persecution and oppression.
At the beginning Zionism was peacefully immigrating and buying land and building kibbutz. Violence was mostly self defense of their communities. There were intense diplomatic efforts to allow peaceful establishment of a state as well. We are here because Arabs didn’t accept Jewish immigrants and refugees as their neighbors. Until today accepting the existence of Israel as a neighbor is anathema to most.
Yes, there are expansionist Zionists, but they only gained prominence and power after decades of Arab intransigence and insistence on war.
What are you referring to when you say “illegal occupation”? It’s a very nebulous term on purpose. Some use it to refer to the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. For others is refers to all of Israel. Being “against illegal occupation” unites those who want to kill all Jews with those who want two democratic states. Be careful who you ally with.
Oh, so the Nakba was all fine? Idk, I'm seeing here a second Nakba, but it might be my antisemitic brain... And with illegal occupation I mean all the occupation Israel has been doing for decades. We all have seen the maps of what was Palestine pre-nakba and what it is today. The only reasons why we are ok with what Israel is doing are:
And tbf, right now I'm pretty sure the main reason is the first one. If that drops, I'm almost sure Israel is going to have a veeeeeeery tough time trying to find support in the international community to fend themselves against every enemy they have made.
So you want the violent destruction of Israel, as far as I understand. Israel, the only Jewish state in the world. A safe haven for Jews persecuted all over the world. A state that was established by the right to self determination of the Jewish people.
You place your hope in the US stopping the support of Israel, a highly unlikely event. The US only became a major supporter of Israel during the Yom Kippur war in 1973. Before that they bought their arms and received nuclear technology from France.
Even if let’s say the USA stops all arms sales to Israel. They would be able to adapt. Today Israel has an extremely good relationship with India. Israeli technology plus Indian manufacturing would enable Israel to do quite well. The relationship with Arab neighbors has improved significantly as well, as they recognize Iran as the true danger to the region’s peace and stability.
The US would lose Israel’s exceptional intelligence skills in the region. That’s not in their interest.
Fever dreams like yours to throw the Jews into the sea have fueled this conflict ever since it heated up in the 1920s.
why do you want a theocracy or ethnostate? Also what one is it you are advocating for, or is it both, because Isreal is both of them under the status quo. and I find both of these types of nations moraly reprehensable
Israel is neither an ethnostate, nor a theocracy. Poland is more of an ethnostate and a theocracy compared to it.
If it isn't an ethnostate, then why did you call it the only Jewish nation of the world?
Several ethnicities live in Israel and have the same citizenship and rights. Israel is the state for the Jews, just like Poland for Polish, Spain for Spanish, and so on. All of these have minorities living in them as well.
You don’t seem to have a good understanding of nation, state, ethnicity, and their relationships.
Bullshit
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution
One example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze_in_Israel