this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2024
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XMPP is not a good protocol though. There's a reason nobody uses it anymore.
I think it's going to be interesting when the EU tries to enforce interoperability between the major messaging platforms. What are they going to do? They have some ridiculous targets like interoperable end-to-end encrypted group video calls in 5 years!
Yeah, Google and Faceebook EEE'd it.
Do elaborate.
XMPP is very old and was created when nobody knew about mobile phones. It worked more like true messaging app less than messages store ( unlike matrix ).
Requirement of permanent tcp ip connection doesn't work well for mobile + pretty much useful feature in xmpp ( like message history ) is optional. If something doesn't work in xmpp most people would blame xmpp / jabber rather than the lack of feature support in their server
Seriously? That's your argument? So is the wheel.
I was under the impression PubSub was created for that.
Still, it's an open extensible protocol.
They elaborated how that relates; usage scenario changed with mobile phones. XMPP is a bad match.
The X is for extensible, so are a whole bunch of other protocols and people haven't stopped using them, they get improved upon (for the most part).
The mentioned permanent tcp ip connection (which you don't neccessarily have on mobile) too?
I was under the impression XEP-0060 solves that.
Sorry, i won't read that whole thing. But i guess you're right, in which case i take back what i said.
Seriously, if you do take one verse from the whole response, you get straw men you fighting with.
I just told you that jabber / xmpp was created in the times almost nobody knew or believed mobile phones can be a thing. Thus it got created in that way: many similarities of xmpp and e-mail, irc or icq which didn't stand the passage of time.
Of course, you're right xmpp evolved to get PubSub extension as an "optional feature" but because of its availability (or rather lack) - most servers didn't support it even the client did support, xmpp didn't win the acceptance of the end-users. It got some attention in the business world (cisco jabber) but not in the retail.
Business cannot work forever without clients willing to pay or at least use, so it died off even in the business.
End of story, try not to fighting with the straw men you created.
That XMPP's extensibility is in itself a strength and a weakness is indeed a valid argument, as you've exemplified. I was expecting you'd criticize OMEMO though...
No, it didn't die off, it's still used. IRC is still used as well, probably more or less at the same level. But if you define usage as "used in business" well then probably just a few cases, yes.
I hadn't heard of Cisco Jabber but i've heard of Google and Facebook - both companies' messengers were, initially, based on XMPP but they EEE'd it once they got enough users and walled their gardens, dealing a major blow to the protocol.
Can i fight my inner daemons at least? Please?
Can you please elaborate this point? I don't understand what you mean by "true messaging app" and why that would be a bad thing?
Are you sure this is the case? Maybe back in the day, but my understanding is this isn't true anymore
Why is user choice a bad thing? There's a wealth of clients that implement the features you want
This may not be an important point, but from my experience, people always blame the client and not the underlying protocol. If I face an issue with my browser, I'd likely blame the browser before I blame http.
I and many others use it! And Google, meta, etc. Have used it but decided to lock it down.
Yes you're right, there's a reason people don't use it as much, which is because these corporations embraced it, dominated it, then extinguished it.
But XMPP is honestly my favorite comm protocol and the most impressive imo.
I use xmpp. It happens to be a great fit for a private family messaging service. Good interoperability between modern clients. I get that "nobody uses it" is hyperbole, but the internet is a big place and there is room for services without mass market appeal to thrive.