this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2023
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Luis Chamberlain sent out the modules changes today for the Linux 6.6 merge window. Most notable with the modules update is a change that better builds up the defenses against NVIDIA's proprietary kernel driver from using GPL-only symbols. Or in other words, bits that only true open-source drivers should be utilizing and not proprietary kernel drivers like NVIDIA's default Linux driver in respecting the original kernel code author's intent.

Back in 2020 when the original defense was added, NVIDIA recommended avoiding the Linux 5.9 for the time being. They ended up having a supported driver several weeks later. It will be interesting to see this time how long Linux 6.6+ thwarts their kernel driver.

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[–] intelati@programming.dev 32 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Riddle me this, why is there such a thing as proprietary drivers for anything? Especially consumer facing products like this?

Don't you want anyone and anything using your product in any situation? Help me understand NVIDIA's bit with this?

[–] eltimablo@kbin.social 38 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Driver code might expose some underlying secret sauce they're using in the hardware. That's the justification they always used to give, at any rate. At this point, though, it's probably some code they've inherited from an acquisition that has a bunch of legal encumbrance stopping it from being open sources.

[–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

If they have to rely on obscuring stuff on their user side to keep their secret sauce, I'd say they're bad at it.

This is coming from someone who deals with APIs for living.

[–] wmassingham@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

They don't have to do it well, just enough to satisfy the lawyers.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 12 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I assume nVidia have licensed other code that they don't have the rights to distribute the source code for.

I get what the GPL fans want here, but it's just going to lead to a gimped driver, no driver, or an even larger shim between the open and closed source bits. The Linux market is too small for nVidia to care.

[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 26 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The Linux market is too small for nVidia to care.

The Linux gaming market is too small for Nvidia to care, but the GPU computing market isn't.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

So we can add "use an older kernel" and "use a modified kernel with that protection removed" to the list of options.

[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Using an older kernel isn't a long-term solution. And according to the kernel devs, either using and older kernel in that way or modifying the kernel to remove these protections still violates the license even if it bypasses the technical protections.

(I'm guessing Nvidia will keep shimming and rely on either not being sued or winning the lawsuit.)

[–] priapus@sh.itjust.works 13 points 2 years ago

The Linux market is massive for Nvidia. Nobody is using Windows for ML and everybody is using Nvidia for ML.

[–] BURN@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago

That’s all I see happening too. The Nvidia Linux drivers will just get worse and not solve anything.

It’s already a huge pain in the ass to use the proprietary drivers, the open source ones barely work as is.

[–] Zeth0s@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

All ml, ai, hpc is done on Linux. They are getting a lot of money because of the hype.

They need Linux drivers. No way hpc can be done on windows. But it can be done on amd

[–] You999@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

The Linux community is literally Nvidia's biggest market. The current Linux market share in data centers is currently estimated to be 77%.